Universal Nutrition Forum

i'm trying to decide what training to do for cutting?
at the moment i'm thinking of going for 3 days full body, supersetting opposite (e.g. bench and rows, shoulder press and lat pulldowns etc). or 3 days full body but not supersetting it.
i was also thinking of just a normal 4 day split.
or the other option i was thinking was a preseason rugby program i got where you are doing 4 sessions a week (session one and two done twice each). session one was squat, deadlift, calf raises, rows, lat pull down, chins. and session two was bench, flys, incline bech, shoulder press, upright rows, bent over lat raises.
the plan is to drop 20lbs of fat over the next 7-8 weeks (i have a good bit to loose so i dont think that is too unrealistic) and then gain as much strenght as possible from the start of august for rugby preseason (and slowly drop another 10-15lbs during preseason and the start of the season which would leave me in the low teens in bf% terms but hopefully a lot stronger)
got a bit side tracked there but basically, which of the 3 would you reccomend, or what training do you do yourself. then cardio will be a mix of hit for fitness, and long runs for fat burning.
thanks lads.

Did you read my essay? Could i get some feedback on it please?

Train heavy for 2 weeks then do full body workouts on the 3rd or even just up the reps for a week as acive rest ya know...so as to avoid injury.

Do a normal 4 day split and do some solid cardio...dont do anything drastic with your carbs. Drop them gradually after a month of hard training and clean eating....there is not reason why you shouldnt have cheat meal every week, especially if you are close to where you want to be. The first 2 weeks could be done without a cheat meal however so as to settle in to the low g.i, clean eating regimen.

i've read the essay a couple of times now trying to fully understand it. i dont have an ounce of knowledge on nutrition compared to yourself, so i'm not sure how much feedback i can give. i agree about suddely cutting carbs imediately while intensifying training. i've made that mistake before and you're right, it really doesnt work. my plan was to keep it as clean as possible and 5-6 meals and then once im starting to getting used to the training load (4 weight sessions, 2-3 hiit cardio sessions) and then after a few weeks i'll start to cut the carbs (defo never going down the keto route tho). with your essay about cardio, i was planning on going down that route myself. gymjohn has always been a big supporter of this compared low intensity cardio. defo a good read man, im sure i'll fully understand it after reading it again.
anyway back to my training, cheers for the advice man, appreciate it. so you'd advise a 4 day split, 8-10 rep range? i was gonna go for legs, chest and biceps, shoulders and triceps, back. i was thinking in that order so im giving myself enough breaks, and allowing for sldl on monday and dl on friday.
then diet wise it'll be 5-6 protein based meals with fruit, veg, oats, and brown rice, and nuts as my main foods to keep it clean b4 i start cutting carbs.
broke so i'll be staying away from supps for the moment, just whey, multi vit and fish oils. tempted to get some oxyelite pro cos before work had me in til 8 every night i was making some real progress with it (down 5lbs in the first 2 weeks). any more advise or critism would be great ryan, cheers mate

oh yeah, meant to ask too. so week 1 and 2 is 4 day split, week 3 full body and then do this every three weeks? or just the 3rd week while im getting used to it? so in other words do i do full body on week 6, 9,12 etc

cantona7 wrote:

i've read the essay a couple of times now trying to fully understand it. i dont have an ounce of knowledge on nutrition compared to yourself, so i'm not sure how much feedback i can give. i agree about suddely cutting carbs imediately while intensifying training. i've made that mistake before and you're right, it really doesnt work. my plan was to keep it as clean as possible and 5-6 meals and then once im starting to getting used to the training load (4 weight sessions, 2-3 hiit cardio sessions) and then after a few weeks i'll start to cut the carbs (defo never going down the keto route tho). with your essay about cardio, i was planning on going down that route myself. gymjohn has always been a big supporter of this compared low intensity cardio. defo a good read man, im sure i'll fully understand it after reading it again.
anyway back to my training, cheers for the advice man, appreciate it. so you'd advise a 4 day split, 8-10 rep range? i was gonna go for legs, chest and biceps, shoulders and triceps, back. i was thinking in that order so im giving myself enough breaks, and allowing for sldl on monday and dl on friday.
then diet wise it'll be 5-6 protein based meals with fruit, veg, oats, and brown rice, and nuts as my main foods to keep it clean b4 i start cutting carbs.
broke so i'll be staying away from supps for the moment, just whey, multi vit and fish oils. tempted to get some oxyelite pro cos before work had me in til 8 every night i was making some real progress with it (down 5lbs in the first 2 weeks). any more advise or critism would be great ryan, cheers mate

You are asking me this at the perfect time. If you were to ask the same questions when i am hitting the mcdonalds during winter I would be at a loss of words for once

We are different body types... I noticed that you would be naturally stockier than me in the gym.

Yeah just let the cardio do the talking for the first 2 weeks at least and see how you feel calorie wise.

A carb cycle is always nice to throw in. Today for instance i thought id hit the swimming pool in college and do sprint training with 80 gr oats and some strawberries at breakfast with whey...the rest of the day im having chicken and peanut butter at 4 meals...whey or chicken by itself before bed time.

I suppose you should find a calorie range that you respond well to training wise/strength wise and stick in and around that number but manipulating the macros.

So on low carb days have more calories coming from fat and maybe protein.

High carb days during the full body workout week, and even about a 100 calories more per day while doing that training.

Get a pen and paper and write out the numbers you will base each week of your diet around.

I think i got the numbers just right this time around. iu only get tired in the evenings after training and strength is getting better on some exercises while going down on shoulders. For instance I curl the 27.5's for sets but at the moment am dumbell pressing the same amount!

cantona7 wrote:

oh yeah, meant to ask too. so week 1 and 2 is 4 day split, week 3 full body and then do this every three weeks? or just the 3rd week while im getting used to it? so in other words do i do full body on week 6, 9,12 etc

eh do the 3rd week and see how you feel on week 6.

cheers man. appreciate you putting the time into replying.
i really have to get into the habit of working out calories. i just roughly worked them out just there using dailyburn.com.
came up with 2260kcal today. 255g protein, 185g carbs, but only 55g fat. feels that could be a good number calorie wise for me. had a good training sessions and didnt feel flat at all, and it was legs day which normally kills me. hopefully if it's clean, and i do enough training then at my weight, that would be a low enough calorie number to start shredding fat. if it's not working i can always drop it down. carb cycling sounds good too. might drop the carbs and up the fats on wednesday cos the only training i will be doing is cardio, depending on how bad the doms are after today.
when do you train now? i've been trying to get in at lunch but keep getting stuck in work and have to go in the evenings

cantona7 wrote:

cheers man. appreciate you putting the time into replying.
i really have to get into the habit of working out calories. i just roughly worked them out just there using dailyburn.com.
came up with 2260kcal today. 255g protein, 185g carbs, but only 55g fat. feels that could be a good number calorie wise for me. had a good training sessions and didnt feel flat at all, and it was legs day which normally kills me. hopefully if it's clean, and i do enough training then at my weight, that would be a low enough calorie number to start shredding fat. if it's not working i can always drop it down. carb cycling sounds good too. might drop the carbs and up the fats on wednesday cos the only training i will be doing is cardio, depending on how bad the doms are after today.
when do you train now? i've been trying to get in at lunch but keep getting stuck in work and have to go in the evenings

Yeah i mean that does sound right judging by your physique.

I am in and around the 2050-2200 mark (nearer 2200 when i increase carbs and cals during total body week)

I finished my exams and am off on summer so i get 2 meals in then go training...i train 2 days on one day off at between 12 and 3...it depends.

Great not to have any repeats to do. Got 86% in first year maths and got very hammered at the taste of dublin to celebrate on results day.

I recommend you go to the taste of christmas in october.

Ill be in tomorrow at 2. Marcus is giving me e-books on exercise physiology and bodybuilding oriented nutrition and training before he goes to australia. Very happy about that...whata sound lad!

well done with the exams man, that's impressive. i've been stick with that amount of calories except and haven't messed with carbs expect on non training days when i bring them fairly low. feeling good with it so far! down 3 lbs the first week, and feeling much better this week after lowering the carbs on non training days. slight gain in strenght too so far so good.
did you have a good workout yesterday? you looked like a man possessed walking into the gym, thought you were gonna hit me for saying hi to you. is marcus the big aussie bloke. i did that survey thing for him last week. hes a really sound guy.

cantona7 wrote:

well done with the exams man, that's impressive. i've been stick with that amount of calories except and haven't messed with carbs expect on non training days when i bring them fairly low. feeling good with it so far! down 3 lbs the first week, and feeling much better this week after lowering the carbs on non training days. slight gain in strenght too so far so good.
did you have a good workout yesterday? you looked like a man possessed walking into the gym, thought you were gonna hit me for saying hi to you. is marcus the big aussie bloke. i did that survey thing for him last week. hes a really sound guy.

It takes 21 days they say to get used to a diet.

Read this:

http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/training-articles/top-5-transformation-tips/

What? Im always friendly...jeez i better watch my manners haha. Sorry about that.

Marcus is a great guy. You can learn so much from him if you get talking to him.

One more day of training tomorrow and then off to wimbledon for 3 days...centre court tickets!

just a bit of an update. after the first two weeks i'm down 7.5lbs on the scales. i've had protein intake up at the g per lb so hopefully not too much of that is muscle loss. had a shit workout today, just felt so dead, so i might up teh pre workout carbs.
ah i was only taking the piss man, you're always friendly in there. how was wimbeldon?

Ah man i was very disappointed in the wimbledon fiasco. I fucking hated london. Terrible company! but im going back with my bro in law and sister in a few months to actually see the good sites and not fuck around.

Im in the final stretch of my cut. Switched up macros this week by lowering protein to 180 gr which cuts 2100 cals out of the diet and also dropped carbs by 30 gr which converts to 120 cals cut out. Was wrecked earlier cuz i did cardio then training then cardio again but got some espresso in there.

Strength is still up...trained arms today and can still curl the 27.5's for 2 sets of 10 then drop to the 25's for more sets. Close grip bench is also nicely up there.

I will up fats tomorrow for h.i.i.t day and then steady state cardio in the evening but keep carbs at 100 or under. Protein is still gonna be at 180 for the next while.

the last 2 weeks should get the veins back out properly in quads. Im 7% b.f now and want to get to 5%.

AS regards total body workouts. I did one week of them and they were good for conditioning but its just more interesting to lift heavy and go for volume still.